Can Mag Taurate make tics worse?

[Karynn]

My 8 year old son has had tics for 1+ years, plus anxiety & ADHD. He is on Tenex and Seroquel, both of which have worked well. He recently started some bad eye rolling & rubbing. He's been off dairy for 1 week and has been taking 500mg of Magnesium Taurate for 4 days and also Flaxseed Oil. HE was already taking a multivitamin, B complex, & Zinc I saw a few new tics in the last couple days, but today he's having A TON of new tics (eye rolling, pulling on one eye, nodding his head, constant odd movements with his arms & elbows, pushing his shirt up under his armpits......). Can the Mag Taurate make tics worse? I'm not sure if he's on the right amounts. THis increase makes me want to stop giving it to him, but if it's normal, I'll try to hang on. I'd appreciate any input!

[Guest]

Hi Karynn,

 

I see lots of things it could be. How long has your son been on Tenex and Serequel? Sometimes when I was little and was trying different meds they would seem to work for a short time, but then after a while of being on the meds my tics started getting really bad. There's the possibility that the meds are causing tics or they are wearing off. Another possiblity I see is maybe it could be detox from going off dairy. It could also be either Magnesium Taurate or Flaxseed Oil. You may also see an increase in tics for a couple weeks after started the new supplements and then tics get better. I would suggest trying to vitamins for 2 weeks and then if the tics are still worse stopping both the flaxseed and mangesium taurate and adding one back in at a time. I would suggest seeing if its the vitamins first since that sounds like its the newest addition.

 

Carolyn

[Chemar]

Hi Karyn

 

perhaps the mag taurate is reacting with his meds (more likely the taurine component, which is an amino acid) but I dont know if this can happen? 500mg may well be just too high for a child of that age

 

also, it is usually recommended that magnesium intake must be balanced with calcium in the ratio of 2 cacium:1magnesium so if it were 500mg magnesium then 1000mg calcium

 

Tics can sometimes wax with a new treatment and then stabilise...but honestly, because he is on two very strong medications, I would highly recommend talking to a knowledgable physician about the correct supplements and dosages

[Karynn]

He's been on Seroquel since Nov, gradually up to 300mg about 2 mos ago, and 2 mg Tenex since last summer. He had some of the strange arm tics last summer & that's when we added the Tenex, which really seemed to help & I hadn't seen that type since then. The Tenex was originally used for anxiety & inattention and the Seroquel for a mood stabilizer, but the doctors have said these should both help with tics.

Thanks for your input!

Karynn

 

 

Hi Karynn,

 

I see lots of things it could be. How long has your son been on Tenex and Serequel? Sometimes when I was little and was trying different meds they would seem to work for a short time, but then after a while of being on the meds my tics started getting really bad. There's the possibility that the meds are causing tics or they are wearing off. Another possiblity I see is maybe it could be detox from going off dairy. It could also be either Magnesium Taurate or Flaxseed Oil. You may also see an increase in tics for a couple weeks after started the new supplements and then tics get better. I would suggest trying to vitamins for 2 weeks and then if the tics are still worse stopping both the flaxseed and mangesium taurate and adding one back in at a time. I would suggest seeing if its the vitamins first since that sounds like its the newest addition.

 

Carolyn

[LuluGirl]

Well, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade about the helpfulness of an assortment of vitamins (I take a bunch every day) but here's what happened with my 12 year old son. When his tics began a few years ago we went through all the regular motions of allergy testing, etc...and ended up giving him a vitamin regime. Tics were mild, compared to others in this forum, but were most definitely there, along with some OCD.

 

About 6 months ago my son started throwing up his vitamins so I decided to stop temporarily because he was freaking out about it. Since then his tics seem to be in some type of remission. Still there, extra minimally (aside from our trip to Disney World) so I can't help but wonder if they were part of the problem for HIM. I do find myself in a quandry though because I know that everyone needs supplements and I'm leary to give them to him now. But, we also have a history in the family of transient tics so maybe they are just on their way out anyway.

 

Not sure how that rambling might help you but that's what happened over here! Good Luck and keep up your questions.

 

Lisa

[Karynn]

Thanks for your input. I've reduced the mag taurate & added calcium so that it's 2:1. I'm going to give the supplements a little bit longer, but then I may need to try without them - his tics have increased dramatically, in type and severity. I've been killing myself trying to figure out what some triggers might be, but it seems impossible!

[kim]

Karynn,

 

Please carefully check his medications with Dr., Pharmacist and your own reasearh to make sure that there are no interactions btwn the supplements and the medications.

 

I ran into a situation where I had told the Dermatologist that my son was on a "pretty heavy duty" vit. program for tics. He told us to keep using if working, and proceeded to prescribe an antibiotic, which could have reduced effectiveness with his vitamins (staph infection). I discovered this myself, by reading about the antibiotic that was prescribed.

 

A friend of mine just told me a couple of days ago, that a medication that was prescribed for acne, has a warning about not taking calcium within so many hours of using the drug. She found that, by reading the lengthly info. provided by the pharmacy, that most of us throw away. She does take a magnesium/ calcium combo on the recommendation of her dr. for bone health, because she drinks a lot of carbonated soda.

 

When reading about different forms of calcium, I read that it may interfer with seizure medicaions. Are your son's meds ever used for seizures?

 

My biggest concern would be that a supplement could increase or decrease the activity of the medication. How then, are things affected if you abruptly remove the supplement?

 

The medications I have looked at (very few and not TS drugs) mostly say not to take certain supplements within so many hours before or after.

 

I have no medical knowledge and really no experience with TS meds, so these are just uneducated thoughts, but something I thought I would share anyway.

[Chemar]

I check all supplements here before using them

 

http://www.iherb.com/health.html

 

I know some folks have become weary of me saying this....but here goes again

 

Because individuals have such unique metabolism and overall biochemistry, it is IMHO REALLY important to have guidance from a knowledgable health care professional on supplementation.

Supplements work because of their definite reactions in the body.

So that is why either testing to determine whether specific supplements are needed, or being guided by someone who understands the potential reactions and interactions, is honestly the best way to go

Yes, there are supplements that are known to have helped many with tics etc....but just because something is right for one person doesnt always mean it is right for another....the UNDERLYING causes for the tics may be VERY DIFFERENT, and so may need a different supplementation program, or totally different treatment regimin.

Also, sometimes things like candida, pyroluria, strep, heavy metals, allergies etc etc need to be addressed FIRST before any supplement program can be effective in tic reduction

 

And then, as is likely the case here, the INTERACTIONS between prescription meds and supplements NEEDS to be checked by a physician. The website I linked to above has a specific section on potential interactions.

 

ok....I am off my soapbox

[lynn2]

I just wanted to add to that good advice that I gave DS magnesium taurate for 2 days and his tics immediately and clearly got worse. He isn't on any meds. I stopped the mag. taurate and his tics slowly improved to the original level after a week. This happened even more dramatically with Acetyl L carnitine. I agree that even though these are over the counter supplements, they can have dramatic effects and must be approached with caution and medical advice! I wonder, though, why my son is so different from the many people on this board that have been helped by these supplements?

[kim]

lynn2,

 

Some supplements have fillers and things that are not necessairly all that good for some people , or they may have a sensitivity too (i.e.corn?). What is the capsule made of, are there any common ingredients in the two supplements that he could be reacting to?

 

Just from reading other's posts, when a child seems to react negatively (and there's no chance of a med. interaction) it's usually recommended to cut the dose in a 1/4 or 1/2 and reintroduce slowly. Personally, in this case, I would try giving magnesium and taurine one at a time, instead of a combo and see what you can figure out.

 

The medical supervision, I TRULY believe is the best way to go, not only for safety, but maximum chance of improvement as Chemar pointed out above. The rotten truth though, is many can't find these Dr.s and can't afford the tests, the time to drive 2 to 3 hours each way, and the supplements. What does that leave, other than the prescription meds, which personally, I'm much more afraid of, than the supplements. My boys have required relatively low levels though, which I think has made me more comfortable.

 

Are you using any other supplements other than the ones you mentioned?

 

Kim

[Guest]

In addition to Kim's post, I wanted to mention my experience with Taurine. I just wanted to mention that Taurine increases my tics. That doesn't seem to be the way that usually works, but for me it does. Most of the time taurine really reduces tis, but for me its the complete opposite.

 

Carolyn

[lynn2]

Hi Kim,

 

Thanks for your concern. Right now, DS is getting a calcium magnesium zinc daily and a borage/flax oil supplement. He has been doing this for about a year and it seems to help with attention and sleep issues--not sure if it is helping with tics, since he waxes and wanes anyway. In addition, fish oil made him incredibly inattentive and annoying and multivitamins (and even enriched cereals and cereal bars) have very bad mood effects on him. I suspect the problem there is vitamin B6, based on a two week trial that I will never repeat! I checked the mg-taurate and acetyl l carnitine and they are different forms of capsules--and capsules have not been a problem with other supplements. Quite frankly, I am afraid to ever give him more amino acids, low doses or not, since he had these quick and frightening reactions to the ones I gave him!

[kim]

lynn,

 

The thing that jumps out at me, is your comment about the vit B. I have read several complaints on the Autism bds. about too high vit.B content in some of the vitamins, and how their kids can't handle that much.

 

My oldest son showed 103 on his P5P/vit B level (top of normal range 50) and younger son showed 48. Youngest was not taking any vitamins at that time. It says Pyridoxal 5 Phosphate next to the number so I'm assuming there is not a problem with conversion. I suspect B12 levels to be low, if anything, and biotin with my youngest son. His fingernails and toenails have been paper thin since he was an infant, they used to be almost non existent! I read somewhere, where candida can cause havoc with biotin and other B vits too.

 

Kim