Something that had occured to me while researching, was the fact that increased dopamine receptors could be the result of the lack of dopamine at some point. Also, my youngest sons limited diet and the fact that I'm sure he has a problem digesting certain types of protein (that's just one of the most obvious things with his food choices). Lenny is really the only other poster here, that I know has a child with tics, a limited diet and used soy infant formula.

I know that much of this seems to be the reverse, of what is discussed in regards to TS, but I'm kind of looking at what might happen as sort of a rebound effect, with an infant exposed to a diet of exclusive soy formula.

I sure, sure would like to know how many people either used soy infant formula, or consumed a lot of soy during pregnancy. This just seems to be tooooooo much of a coincidence. I have tons of studies and articles relating to the questionable substances in soy (fluoride, aluminum, maganese, phytic acid, genestein) but this on has the most info. that many might recognize as relating to tics. These are a few things that I pulled out of the article.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soyandbrain.html


Soy Interferes with Enzymes
While soybeans are relatively high in protein compared to other legumes, they are a poor source of protein because other proteins found in soybeans act as potent enzyme inhibitors. These "anti-nutrients" block the action of trypsin and other enzymes needed for protein digestion. Trypsin inhibitors are large, tightly folded proteins that are not completely deactivated during ordinary cooking and can reduce protein digestion. Therefore, soy consumption may lead to chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake.8

Soy’s ability to interfere with enzymes and amino acids may have direct consequence for the brain. As White and his colleagues suggest, "isoflavones in tofu and other soyfoods might exert their influence through interference with tyrosine kinase-dependent mechanisms required for optimal hippocampal function, structure and plasticity."2

High amounts of protein tyrosine kinases are found in the hippocampus, a brain region involved with learning and memory. One of soy’s primary isoflavones, genistein, has been shown to inhibit tyrosine kinase in the hippocampus, where it blocked "long-term potentiation," a mechanism of memory formation.9

Tyrosine, Dopamine,
and Parkinson’s Disease
The brain uses the amino acids tyrosine or phenylalanine to synthesize the key neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine, brain chemicals that promote alertness and activity. Dopamine is crucial to fine muscle coordination. People whose hands tremble from Parkinson’s disease have a diminished ability to synthesize dopamine. An increased incidence of depression and other mood disorders are associated with low levels of dopamine and norepinephrine. Also, the current scientific consensus on attention-deficit disorder points to a dopamine imbalance.

Soy has been shown to affect tyrosine hydroxylase activity in animals, causing the utilization rate of dopamine to be "profoundly disturbed." When soy lecithin supplements were given throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity in the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics in a manner consistent with disturbances in neural function."10

Researchers at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute and at the National Institutes of Health are finding a connection between tyrosine hydroxylase activity, thyroid hormone receptors, and depleted dopamine levels in the brain--particularly in the substantia nigra, a region associated with the movement difficulties characteristic of Parkinson’s disease.11,12,13

Soy Affects the Brain via the Thyroid Gland
Tyrosine is crucial to the brain in another way. It’s needed for the body to make active thyroid hormones, which are a major physiological regulator of mammalian brain development. By affecting the rate of cell differentiation and gene expression, thyroid hormones regulate the growth and migration of neurons, including synaptic development and myelin formation in specific brain regions. Low blood levels of tyrosine are associated with an underactive thyroid gland.

Hi Kim

I used no soy during pregnancy, and also no formula of any kind after

I have noticed the deep divide about soy, with some healthcare professionals (eg Dr Weil) recommending it and others (eg Dr Mercola) strongly suggesting to avoid it

Good morning Kim. Our son, who is now 5 years old, was given soy formula for about 13 months. He was a terrible eater from the beginning & did not nurse well. I started him on formula & then switched to soy when he was about 4 months old. He was so difficult to feed all the way up to 3 years of age.

My husband noticed his tics this past December & immediately began to research. We have changed his diet to whole foods (Basicly what Bonnie from Bontech recommends) & we have him on Bonnie's vitamins. His tics are down; however, he is currently in the midst of allergy season & this is affecting him.

Was your child a problem eater from the get-go?

We are currently seeing a doctor - Dr. Maulfair in Topton, Pa. He is running many blood, stool & urnine test to see what is going on with our child. He tends to think that it might be candida (yeast overgrowth in the G.I. track). My other son does not tic; however, he has complained about stomache discomfort for the past 2 years. This too can be a sign of candida & we are going to get him checked out as well.

I am new to this whole TS thing. My husband has had it since he was a child. What, in simple words, is your concern with soy & your child's development. I have read your link but I was unable to comprehend the information & make the connection between TS & soy.

Thanks so much. Pam

Chemar,

Thanks for the response

You know something that bothers me is, it used to be thought that approx. 1 in 10,000 people were affected by TS. Now I see " as many as 1 in 100." Granted, they are probably throwing TS, transient tics, chronic etc. in the mix, but none the less that's a huge increase.

It just seems, a big part of the puzzle here is; how many factors could be responsible for the increase and what can be learned from the new generation ( with no family history) to families with a clear history, thru multiple generations?

If the methyl cycle is askew in TS and heavy metals are a culprit, might metals found in the soil air and water have been enough to trigger symptoms in past generations? Something like copper or any metal that is readily found in the environment? Have the symptoms gotten worse in successive generations? I wonder if anyone who is affected/has an affected child has less severe symptoms, than the generation before them?

The questions are just endless.

Hi Pam,

My youngest son, who is now 10 was a great eater from birth to sometime btwn 12mos. and a little over 1 yr. He just started refusing foods that he had always eaten with gusto. It was nothing for him to have vegetable chicken 3rd food, a whole jar of blueberry buckle (one of his favorites) and maybe 1/2 a jar of plums. He kept the majority of the fruits, but would simply refuse the broccoli and carrots, veg beef dinner, chicken noodle, just everything. He also wanted nothing to do with the typical finger foods for toddlers. It was like overnight, he became a terribly limited eater. I can't remember if this happened in relationship to any illness. Two things that I do know that happened very near this time. He had his round of 1 yr. immunizations, and I stopped giving him soy and started him on whole milk.

My 14 year old son has tics too. He was soy fed also. Neither of the boys are "active" with tics very frequently. I do think that the things that we have done in the way of supplements (we use Bonnie's vits too) fish oil, extra vit C, digestive enzymes, etc. have been very helpful. I tend to look at everything but tics when I try to gauge improvements since using supplements. I was told by a conventional Allergy Dr. that my youngest sons chronic dark circles were caused by allergies and he was prescribed 3 allergy meds, yet he only had mild reactions to mold, cat, and dust mites. My oldest son who had terrible big reactions to allergy testing had no dark circles?????? I believe my youngest sons circles we truly more related to deficiences and supplements helped tremendously. His stamina improved a lot too.

Pam, in order to understand what I'm talking about in regards to soy, you have to understand a little about the neurotransmitters.

Maybe this page will help. I really think, whether you are using meds or supplements, it's a good idea to have at least a basic understanding of these things, and how the treatment might be affecting your individual child. It's great that you have a Dr. guiding you! If I could have found someone close enough, that had credentials that I really felt comfortable with, I'd probably be sleeping right now!

https://www.neurorelief.com/index.php?optio...9&Itemid=48

Dopamine

Epinephrine

GABA

Glutamate

Glutamine

Serotonin

Taurine

I will add more to this thread that may or may not help you see where I'm coming from, lol.

Kim

BTW, could I ask if your son without tics is older than your 5 yr. old?

Kim,
You can add my guy to the list of limited/picky eaters. I had this problem with him forever. It was very stressful, I'm the mom who's following the kid around with a forkful of food. BUT, he was never on soy formula. We used the regular similac and then at around one year and change switched to whole milk. So I'm not sure if you were looking for the soy connection, but if so, my son never had soy as infant. (we use rice milk now.) Now that we have cut way back on commercial junk food, he is eating way better. I notice, over time, I don't have to fight with him to eat anymore.

Itsme --
Forgive me, I'm just a tad confused. But I got the impression from previous conversation that "itsme" was the dad posting? I'm assuming, Pam, you are the mom and you are both posting on same username?

Faith

Faith,

I know low serotonin is implicated in appetite too. However, I don't know how the "limited part," plays into that.

I could understand sugar cravings (aside from the Candida problems) if the brain was trying to boost serotonin levels with sugar cravings, but protein containing foods, seem to make him feel ill. The exception to that is dairy. He could eat an entire carton of Stoneyfield Yogart if I let him. His does get HUNGRY. He, even gets frustrated. He wants to eat other foods, but can't.

He tells me that there are about 6 kids like him in the lunchroom. All boys, with the exception of one little girl who is diabetic. He said some of them are worse than him. All they bring in their lunch is candy. My son will at least eat a few crackers, he loves maderine oranges, maybe a mozerella cheese stick. On a good day, I can get him to eat a few apple wedges dunked in peanut butter. Currently, he is avoiding peanut butter too.

Pam,

Since excess dopamine, increased receptors, high norepinephrine, etc. has been implicated in TS, it's hard to read statements like what's in the above article and not think that there may be a connection.

This article got my blood pressure up, a while back, too. Chemar, referred to Dr. Mercola. This is an article that was on his site. My understanding is that the body can replace magnesium by using mangenese, when it's present in high amts.


How Safe is Soy Infant Formula?

By David Goodman

New research suggests high concentrations of manganese found in soybean-based baby formula can lead to brain damage in infants and altered behaviors in adolescents.

Dr. Francis Crinella, clinical professor of pediatrics at UC-Irvine, and Trinh Tran, a graduate researcher at the UC-Davis Department of Animal Studies, have described how the soybean plant lifts up manganese in the soil and concentrates it so that its use in soy-based infant formula can result in as many as 200 times the level found in natural breast milk.

These and other experts believe that such high concentrations could pose a threat to the immature metabolic systems of babies up to 6 months of age.


The size of the market for soy-based infant formula is held closely, and none of the producers contacted by Insight would reveal sales figures. An independent expert estimates the market for all infant formula to be about $3 billion, with soy-based formula accounting for about $750 million of that, having doubled in the last 10 years.


The best-selling brand is Isomil (Ross Products Division of Abbott Laboratories), followed by Enfamil ProSobee (Mead Johnson), Nursoy (Wyeth-Ayerst) and Alsoy (Carnation).


According to Crinella and Tran, the discovery of potential harm from such products began in 1980 when a federal agency then called the Food and Nutrition Board established safe and acceptable values for manganese in adults, toddlers and infants.


Permissible levels for the three age groups ranged from 2.5 to 3 mg per day for adults, 1 to 1.5 mg per day for toddlers and 0.5 to 1 mg per day for infants under 6 months. This job now is handled by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which today permits 0.6 mg per day for infants, 120 times the amount found in mother's milk.


The FDA says that in the next few months it will lower the guidelines.

Ruth Welch, an FDA spokeswoman, confirms that a report will recommend a minimum of only 0.005 mg of manganese a day and no maximum for infants up to age 6 months.


Despite government assurances of safety at the recommended levels, the professional literature shows that in 1983 Phillip Collipp, a pediatric physician at Nassau County [N.Y.] Medical Center, tested infant formula for manganese in popular soy brands, including Isomil, ProSobee and Nursoy, purchased locally. He published data showing that they contained from 0.2 mg to 1 mg per quart. Later that year, Drs. Bo Lönnerdal and Carl Keen of the UC-Davis Department of Nutrition tested formula taken from pharmacy shelves worldwide.


They found higher manganese concentrations in soy formulas, ranging from 0.4 mg to 2.2 mg; the mean value of 1.2 mg vastly exceeded the infinitesimal 0.005 mg found in mother's breast milk.


After the research by Collipp, Lönnerdal and Keen, nutritional scientists worldwide reported that newborn babies, in symbiosis with their mothers during the first weeks, absorbed most of the manganese in breast milk. The tiny amounts the baby suckles a dozen times a day appear to function as a catalyst for more than 50 biochemical reactions. This suggests a newborn's digestive system is superbly attuned to absorb the infinitesimal levels of manganese in mother's milk, and that, in fact, it is essential to the development process.


At least some of this soy formula, which tested at up to 200 times the manganese of breast milk clearly has the potential to overload the infant's little body.


Lönnerdal says the baby's immature liver cannot handle the manganese load by excreting the excess. In newborns, ingested manganese rises to high levels in the blood plasma and red blood cells, then permeates the liver, kidneys and other soft tissues of the body, including the brain. He believes, however, that by the time of weaning, when the infant normally consumes solid food, it can metabolize manganese.


Crinella calculated that by the age of 8 months an infant fed soy formula daily absorbs approximately 1.1 mg of manganese above metabolic need. "A significant amount, about 8 percent, is deposited in a brain region vulnerable to threat of manganese attack," he says.


Six years ago, tragic incidents in two London hospitals, the Hospital for Sick Children and Queen Elizabeth's Hospital for Children, alerted the medical community to the vulnerability of sick babies to manganese attacks on the brain. Suffering from liver disease, the babies had received nutrient solutions containing recommended amounts of manganese through an intravenous tube. The manganese had no greater concentration than in soy formula and was considered safe by government standards, but after a few months the infant brains showed damage.


Of 57 babies receiving "safe" amounts of manganese, two fell ill with movement disorders and six suffered damage to their basal ganglia when examined by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).


Also, Crinella has done extensive studies on the effect of manganese in adolescents. His research detected relatively high levels of manganese in the scalp hair of hyperactive children when compared with matched control subjects.


Crinella at first was puzzled by the high manganese levels in hyperactive children. The only exposure of his subjects had to be through diet, yet California has historic low levels of manganese in its soil, air and water. Because adolescents metabolize at least 97 percent of manganese ingested, the exposure had to have occurred earlier in life, possibly from manganese in baby food, or (as his research proceeded further) soy-based infant formula. Could elevated manganese be a clue to the current epidemic of adolescent violence sweeping the nation?


Crinella did a study with rats and manganese supplementation and the results were clear-cut: Rats given 0.05 mg. of manganese daily for 18 days in the amount comparable with the manganese in breast milk did as well as the control group given no manganese. Rats given supplemental manganese five times higher at 0.25 mg daily suffered a precipitous decline in basal-ganglia dopamine of 48 percent. The rats dosed daily with the highest amount, 0.50 mg, had a plunge in dopamine by a staggering 63 percent.


"The brain undergoes a tremendous proliferation of neutrons, dentrites and synapses during the first months of life," Crinella says. "The brain especially is vulnerable in early life precisely because such rampant growth is taking place, and at that time intrusions by potentially toxic substances like manganese perturbing the emerging neural organization can exert long-term effects. Manganese ingested during a period of rapid brain growth and deposited in the critical basal ganglia region may affect behavior during puberty when powerful stresses are un- leashed on the dopamine neurons, and altered behavioral patterns appear."

These altered behavioral patterns during late childhood and early adolescence, according to Crinella, may be diagnosed as hyperactivity with attentional deficit - or perhaps as "manganese-toxicity syndrome."


Everett Hodges, founder of the Violence Research Foundation, thinks Crinella's case is overwhelming. "Criminals ages 16 and 17 years old today, some of them born to poor mothers between 1983 and 1984, could have received from the government soy formula with enough manganese to disrupt growing brains, and this may be why adolescents have difficulty restraining aggressive impulses now."


Dr. Stanley van den Noort, a member of the foundation's board, is former dean of the UC-Irvine College of Medicine. He says, "I think the data presented at the conference are convincing that manganese is a neurotoxin. Newborn infants exposed to high levels of manganese may be predisposed to neurological problems. We should exercise strong caution in the use of soy-based formula around the world."


Naomi Baumslag, clinical professor of pediatrics at Georgetown University Medical College and president of the Woman's Public Health Network, tells Insight, "Only 50 percent of newborns today suckle at the mother's breast even once. After six months, the number has fallen to only one mother in five. Often mothers for the sake of convenience plunk soy bottles into the infant's mouth. Why do so many mothers in the United States imagine they have given birth to a baby soybean instead of a human child?"


Baumslag goes further: "There is a great deal of scientific evidence that soy formula can be damaging to newborns, quite aside from the manganese." She says a tablespoon of soy formula can be dangerous both for what it does not have and for what it has.


That spoonful may be deficient in linoleic and oleic essential fatty acids, DHA-brain-growth factor, epidermal growth factor, lactoferrin, casomorphin and immune factors such as IgA, neutrophils, macrophages, T-cells, B-cells and interferon - all provided by the mother in breast milk to defend her baby.

On the other hand, Baumslag says, that spoonful does contain phytates, protease factors, soy lectins, enormous amounts of phytoproteins, and genistein and daidzen, both moderate estrogen mimics in humans.


"Why deprive the newborn infants of perfectly good breast milk - a nutritionally superior food in every way for the baby - and feed them soy beans?" Baumslag asks.

Insight Magazine


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

This is a new one for me with soy formula. I was not aware of its elevated manganese levels. I have known of the increased aluminum levels in soy.

The other significant issue are the estrogens in soy. A soy-fed baby receives the equivalent of five birth control pills' worth of estrogen every day. These babies' isoflavone levels were found to be from 13,000 to 22,000 times higher than in non-soy fed infants.


Related Articles:

Soy Formulas and the Effects of Isoflavones on the Thyroid

Pregnant Women Should Not Eat Soy

Return to Table of Contents #228

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This was a follow up to that article

Responses to Manganese in Soy
We had two good follow-up emails from the the recent article we had about elevated Manganese levels in soy article.
The first is from David Vaughan (DAKLINIK@aol.com) who is one of the top nutritionists in Seattle and the second is from Andreas Schuld (brou@istar.ca), a well-known expert on fluoride.



David Vaughan:

The worst offender of manganese in baby food, however, is baby food with turkey meat. It has a whopping 30mg of Mn in 100gms.

Next worst is creamed peaches, which has 15.68mg.

I have been screaming about MN/soy as a problem for years. So little valid research has been done that it is a tough argument to make. One ends up talking about such archaic problems as "Manganic Madness" and the like. A piece of research was done showing high MN in hair of violent and criminally insane prisoners.

In the Northwest part of Washington State there is a huge problem with MN in the well water. EVERYONE who drinks well water from that region has or will have very serious health problems.

There are no known chelators specific to MN Filtering it from water is very expensive and problematic. Because it is the main fuel for the mitochondria this MN overload is a very sticky problem. My view is that it is the higher valence MN (biounavailable) that causes the body to shunt the normal use of bioavailable MN thus causing a toxic buildup for which we have no solution (yet). Big problem.





Fluoride/Manganese Association

Andrease Schuld had some excellent comments as to the importance of the manganese as relates to its interaction with fluoride.

First of all, as the soy formula article from last week states, manganese levels in soy formula are 200 times that of breast milk.

Add to that, the fact that fluoride can increase manganese absorption, and you now have an even more lopsided and dangerous situation. The soy formula has massive manganese levels and the fluoridated water that may be used to reconstitute the powder version or concentrate version of the soy formula causes even greater manganese absorption in the infant.

As Andreas points out, the scientific literature clearly shows that increased manganese levels can cause several problems, such as replacing magnesium in many enzymes that the body makes.

Be sure to vist Andreas's website at http://www.bruha.com/fluoride.



Andreas Schuld:

There are many interactions between fluoride and manganese, especially as it relates to signal transduction in disease. However, as this requires some understanding of pathways etc., it might be too complex to get into at this point. This is, again, particularly important as it relates to thyroid hormone function.

Kanwar, Singh et al (1981) exposed rats to various fluoride levels in drinking water and found that fluoride caused a significant fall of manganese levels in the liver and kidney, while it increased manganese levels in bone.

Kanwar KC, Singh M - "Zinc, copper and manganese levels in various tissues following fluoride administration" Experientia 37(12):1328-9 (1981)]

also in:

Singh M, Kanwar KC - "Effect of fluoride on copper, manganese and zinc in bone and kidney" Bull Environ Contam Toxicol 26(3):428-31 (1981)

When rats were fed green and black tea extracts (high in Fluoride and Aluminum), it was found that the manganese and copper absorption was increased, while zinc, calcium and iron absorption was decreased. In all tea extracts used, the manganese absorption was increased, resulting in increased manganese in the tibia.

[Zeyuan D, Bingying T, Xiaolin L, Jinming H, Yifeng C - "Effect of green tea and black tea on the metabolisms of mineral elements in old rats." Biol Trace Elem Res 65(1):75-86 (1998)]

This is quite important, as tea has very high levels of fluoride, aluminum and manganese. The content of manganese was 1440 micrograms/g in the case of oolong tea, 670 micrograms/g in green tea, and 535 micrograms/g in black tea.

[Matsushima F, Meshitsuka S, Nose T - "Contents of aluminum and manganese in tea leaves and tea infusions" Nippon Eiseigaku Zasshi 48(4):864-72 (1993)]

Manganese absorption also depends a great deal on zinc.

When zinc deficient, manganese levels in brain are altered.

From mercola.com 10-27-01:

Soy Can Lead to Kidney Stones
New research indicates that soybeans and soy-based foods, a staple in the diets of many health-conscious consumers, may promote kidney stones in those prone to the painful condition.

The researchers measured nearly a dozen varieties of soybeans for oxalate, a compound that can bind with calcium in the kidney to form kidney stones.

They also tested 13 types of soy-based foods, finding enough oxalate in each to potentially cause problems for people with a history of kidney stones, according to Linda Massey, Ph.D., at Washington State University in Spokane.

The amount of oxalate in the commercial products easily eclipsed the American Dietetic Association's 10 milligram-per-serving recommendation for patients with kidney stones, with some foods reaching up to 50 times higher than the suggested limit, she noted.

"Under these guidelines, no soybean or soy-[based] food tested could be recommended for consumption by patients with a personal history of kidney stones," she said.

No one had previously examined soy foods for oxalate, thus the researchers are the first to identify oxalate in store-bought products like tofu, soy cheese and soy drinks. Other foods, such as spinach and rhubarb, also contain significant oxalate levels, but are not as widely consumed for their presumed health benefits, Massey said.

During their testing, the researchers found the highest oxalate levels in textured soy protein, which contains up to 638 milligrams of oxalate per 85-gram serving.

Soy cheese had the lowest oxalate content, at 16 milligrams per serving. Spinach, measured during previous research, has approximately 543 milligrams per one-cup (2 oz. fresh) serving.

Soy, a natural source of protein, fiber and healthy oils, is used to enhance a myriad of foods, ranging from hamburgers to ice cream. It can be ground into flour and used in a variety of grain products, or formed into chunks and ground like meat.

Soy is also being studied for its potential to lower cholesterol, reduce bone loss and prevent breast cancer. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently approved a new label on foods containing at least 6.25 grams of soy protein per serving that boasts of a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease.

Oxalate, however, cannot be metabolized by the body and is excreted only through urine, Massey said. The compound has no nutritional value, but binds to calcium to form a mass (kidney stones) that can block the urinary system, she said.

Further research is needed to find types of soybeans with less oxalate, or to develop a processing method to remove the compound before it reaches consumers, she added.

No one knows precisely why kidney stones occur in particular individuals.

But Massey said high levels of oxalate in the urine increase the risk and those with a family history of the ailment are more likely to suffer from the condition; individuals with a low probability of kidney stones are unlikely to be affected by oxalate in soy-based foods.

More than one million people were diagnosed with kidney stones in the United States in 1996, the most recent available data, according to the National Institutes of Health.

Stones can range in size from the diameter of a grain of rice to the width of a golf ball. An estimated 10 percent of the U.S. population, mostly men, will develop a kidney stone at some point in their lives, according to the NIH.

Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry September 2001



DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

Yet one more nail in the coffin of non-fermented soy which I do not believe is designed to be eaten. This study suggests that the over one million patients with kidney stones should not consume soy.

If you are still brainwashed by the edible oil industry's incredibly effective media spin on soy, then please review the soy index page link below which has hundreds of pages describing the reason's you will not want to regularly consume non-fermented soy products.

Soy protein powders and soy formula are the worst offenders and I don't believe that they should be consumed by anyone


DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

This article is nearly 15 years old and way back then the warnings for soy consumption were being raised.

Fermented soy products are the only ones you should even consider using. Most all children should avoid soy due to its hormonal influences. This is particularly true of soy formula and soy milk for children.

Boy Kim, you sure know your way around the web.

You got me thinking, and reminded me I wanted to get the book THE SECOND BRAIN, by Dr. Michael Gershon.

Has anyone read it?

I'm stuck on the gut being the second brain, and having, " A hundred million neurotransmitters, line the gut, approximately the same as the brain."

In all my notes about raw milk and it being a perfect food, "One could live off it alone if one had to." The 60 plus enzymes, protein, vitamins, and amino acids. I'm finding myself wanting to know so much more about the gut and the brain connection. And how is my son benefiting from the raw milk.

My son also was NOT on soy as a child. In fact he has an allergy to it, tho we did not know until tests were done.

Interesting link on the neurotransmitters, I think I can even point out some effects these have on my husband.

C.P.

Our twins were both on Soy, our daughter can take milk now, but our son still complains of abdominal pain when he has milk. He does have soy, mostly just with his breakfast cereal. When breast milk was not an option, regular formula made the kids cry in pain, we were glad there was soy as an option. Not sure what we could have done differently, but if soy is the focul point of any problems with regards to ticcing, how can the damage be controlled or reversed? It seems to be that journey thing again, right now, with the supps he is on, he is eating better and sleeping better and finally putting on some weight. He is doing well in school and is very bright.
Lenny

Kim,
Do you think using soymilk at any time during childhood could have the same effects as described in all that above, not just in infancy via soy formulas? I'm just wondering now. As I said, my son was not on soy formula, but last year about this time I took him off dairy for a time just on a hunch of it contributing to his vocal at that time and started using soy milk. Things improved for a time until end of summer the vocal started again. I don't know, maybe the soy wasn't good for him after all and over time (about 6 months of use) it reached its saturation point? I'm just totally speculating here, based on the above reading. Its a little comprehensive, and I have to admit a little hard to grasp totally, but I'm trying.

I did stop using soymilk and switched to rice milk, which we have been using now for about 7-8 months. So is the bottom line that soy is a trouble maker?

Faith

CP

I had to laugh about the remark about knowing my way around the net!

I get so wrapped up in what I'm reading. I search the words that I have no idea what they mean, and that takes me in a whole different direction, then I end up with this note page FULL of links, and it occurs to me that the gene (or one of them) involved in TS could start in the big Toe . EVERYTHING is so linked to everything else.

Daniel used to tell me all the time, to keep working on the gut. If the gut was working right, everything else would fall into place. I have thought about that often during my "research." I totally understand your interest in the book.

Hey during all of my note taking, I included something in that last post, that I probably would have cut. I only had it saved because it pertained to me. It's this study

[Zeyuan D, Bingying T, Xiaolin L, Jinming H, Yifeng C - "Effect of green tea and black tea on the metabolisms of mineral elements in old rats." Biol Trace Elem Res 65(1):75-86 (1998)]

Now, I love love love black tea. It's better than the diet coke that I used to drink, during my young rat days, or so I thought!

Lenny,

I know what you're saying about being happy to have soy as an alternative. I have read that from the soy advocates too. I don't know if they had the formulas with the broken down proteins, (is it Great Start) when your twins were born?

I just wish SOMEONE would have told me that there was at least some suspicion that soy infant formula was not that great. Do you know the only reason I used it, was because they really talked it up in the hospital?

If we would have had access to any of this info, odds are we would have learned all we could, weighed the positives/negatives and made the best decision that we could for our kids at the time.

Look at this....Soy is high in glutamate too,

http://www.campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/2204...%20rebuttal.htm

We know that under certain conditions, glutamate toxicity is greatly increased, which includes low magnesium levels, deficient mitochondrial energy production such as hypoglycemia, mitochondrial disease, during aging, with all of the neurodegenerative disease (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and ALS and most chronic diseases), during inflammation and when associated with other toxins-including mercury, lead, cadmium, aluminum, pesticides, fluoride and industrial chemicals. This would include tens of millions of Americans, who should be avoiding soy products.

While there is a lot more concerning excitotoxins, which can be found in my two books, Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills and Health and Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life, unfortunately, there is a lot more involved than just excitotoxins. Soybeans and especially their hydrolyzed and processed products, contain high levels of manganese, aluminum and fluoride, all of which are powerful cell toxins, especially for brain cells.

Recent studies have shown that when aluminum is combined with fluoride, which occurs very easily, brain levels of aluminum are doubled. Extensive research connects aluminum in the brain with most of the neurodegenerative diseases. When hydrolyzed as in soy milk, the fluoride and aluminum easily bind, forming neurotoxic fluoroaluminum compounds. The concentration at which this occurs in 0.5 ppm, a very small concentration. Fluoroaluminum compounds interact with G-proteins, which are common cell communication systems, especially in the brain and operate most of the glutamanergic receptors in the brain (glutamate receptors).

And


http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/msg.html

Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)

The level of vitamin B6 in a person's body plays a role in glutamate metabolism, and the possible impact of marginal B6 intake should be considered in future research.

As far as what we can do to undo possible effects, maybe we're doing it!

Faith,

From everything I have read, Soy Infant Powdered formula that is reconstituted with water was about the worst of the formulas as far as having the highest levels of the things we've been discussing, compared to milk based formulas and breast milk. It also looks like after about 6 mos. of age, babies are able to excrete mangenese much more effectively.

I don't know how high soy beverages are in glutamate. It does seem possible that long term use could be a problem for a TS child/person to me. I guess that is something others could comment on, and anyone using it, could be on the look out for.

Personally, I would stay away from soy if at all possible for a person with a neuro disorder, or even if there is a family history.

This is something to consider too

http://www.bonniegr.com/

The hypothetical role of tyramine in TS is another one of my interpretations: If there is excess tyramine in TS by ingesting tyramine containing foods and from inhibited monoamine oxidase activity (through the actions of certain drugs or nutritional deficiencies), stores of norepinephrine, which have been found to be already increased in TS in studies, can be released in the body possibly leading to increased symptoms. Tyramine containing foods should never be taken with MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) drugs because a serious hypertensive crisis could develop.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T127905.html

Tyramine-containing Foods
Avoidance

All soybean products should be avoided

One of the biggest concerns, that I think applies to an older person consuming a lot of soy is the genestein and the effects on fertility.

Interesting discussion

although I have no experiential or expert opinion on soy and TS/tics, I would urge again to consider the unique biochemistry & metabolism of the INDIVIDUAL and also that there are VERY differing opinions by highly regarded medical professionals when it comes to soy. (eg Dr Weil=pro-soy and Dr Mercola=anti-soy)

The only soy product I use at home is Tamari sauce, but my son's absolute most favorite food is Japanese and when we do go out to eat we tend to choose one of our favorite and trusted(for good ingredients) Japanese restaurants...both hibachi and traditional.
My son LOVES miso soup and usually has at least two bowls of it when we eat there, and I have never once noticed an increase in tics from it....if anything, the opposite. He has always said (and I agree for myself) that miso soup gives him a feeling of goodness and health, and it is pure soy with a bit of kelp and scallion added

anyway..........that is in no way comparable to the crux of this discussion, which is primarily related to infant soy formula. There I can see why an attitude of caution is needed (but then I have that feeling re all infant formulae)!

Good morning Kim. There is a lot to learn!!! I will read more from the site you sent me. Clearly, there are deficiencies w/in our children that are causing the mis-firing in their brains thus causing the tics & other emotional/personality problems.

I totally agree with you regarding the dark circles under your youngest son's eyes. Not having the right biological balance will create such physical qualities....listen to me. I sure can sound authoritative!!! From what I have read, the dark circles do not line up with allergies; rather, nutrition.

Our youngest has really balanced out personality wise & tic wise since we have altered his diet & maintained the Bontech vitamin regimen. Currently, he is having a hard time with the tree pollen & this is causing a mild nose & mouth tic which is hardly noticable.

From what my husband (itsme) & I have learned over the past 4 months, it seems that Tourettes is simply the body's way of saying "I have problems - fix me!!". The solution is out there & we have great hope of healing our boy along with our other son (who is one year older) who appears to have a G.I. problem. His personality (the oldest) has GREATLY improved since we started him, back in December, on Bonnie's vitatmins. We are taking him in today to our specialist to begin the process of discovering what exactly ailes him.

Thanks again for the wonderful sites you sent me. I am looking forward to learning more.

With kind regards, Pam

Chemar,

As usual, you hit a nail right on the head!

A bowl of miso soup, and exlusive feeding of soy to infants, are worlds apart in potential problems IMO.

This page gives some good info on this topic

http://westonaprice.org/soy/ploy.html



Also, do you remember when I asked you if you knew anything about IP6, and it's effects as an immunomodulator?

In naturally fermented soy products, it looks like there ARE some good things going on! I suspect these are they types of things that make Dr. Weil try to keep some balance in the anti soy movement.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12594974

INTRODUCTION: Phytic acid or IP6 has been extensively studied in animals and is being promoted as an anti-cancer agent in health food stores. It is naturally found in legumes, wheat bran, and soy foods.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=17044765

Protection against cancer by dietary IP6 and inositol.

As usual, it seems to me, that the virtues of soy were promoted as far as feeding it to infants, and the possible negative effects were overlooked. Now, all of these years later, they will beat around the bush, and say, "Well.....maybe it's not such a good idea, but.....we need larger studies to prove it.

C.P. and others,
I had this saved on my favorites list I think when trying to figure out what and if my son had some sensory issues.............thought you might like to peruse this site since it mentions that "gut being the second brain" ..........it touches on some subjects being discussed here.....

http://www.spdbayarea.org/nutrition_and_SPD.htm

Faith

It just burns me, in all of these articles where neuro problems are discussed, TS in NEVER mentioned. Why is that???

Confused About Soy?--Soy Dangers Summarized

Lots of soy links

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15955660

Neurobehavioral evaluation of rhesus monkey infants fed cow's milk formula, soy formula, or soy formula with added manganese.

This experiment suggests that components of soy formula, including Mn, may influence brain development as reflected in behavioral measures.


http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/ab...ournalCode=nutr

Abstract
Annual Review of Nutrition
Vol. 24: 33-54 (Volume publication date July 2004)
(doi:10.1146/annurev.nutr.24.101603.064950)

First published online as a Review in Advance on January 8, 2004
ISOFLAVONES IN SOY INFANT FORMULA: A Review of Evidence for Endocrine and Other Activity in Infants*

Aimin Chen and ­ Walter J. Rogan­
Epidemiology Branch, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709; email: chen17@niehs.nih.gov, rogan@niehs.nih.gov

Soy infant formulas are widely used, but few studies have evaluated long-term safety or examined specific forms of toxicity, such as to the endocrine or immune systems. This review focuses on newer experimental studies of the effects on estrogen activity, immune function, and thyroid economy of genistein and daidzein, two isoflavones in soy infant formula, and existing human studies of soy formula use. In order to judge the likelihood that an endpoint seen in laboratory studies might occur in soy-fed infants, we examined the doses and the resulting serum or plasma concentrations from the laboratory studies and compared them with doses and concentrations seen in soy-fed infants. We also summarized the estimates of the potency of the isoflavone compounds relative to estradiol. Given the scarcity and inconsistency of existing human data and the substantial laboratory evidence of hormonal and other activity at doses relevant to the soy-fed infant, we conclude that more clinical and epidemiological study is warranted.

In March of 2006 14 Experts got together to review the safety of soy products. This study as far as I can tell (220+pages) was looking largely at reproductive effects, and Genistein in particular. About page 68, I zoned out. So, I skipped to this article

http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/chemicals/genis...r.niehs.nih.gov

Genistein - Expert Panel Conclusions

Even though there is a paucity of available human data on exposure to purified
genistein, the Expert Panel expresses negligible concern for reproductive and
developmental effects from exposure of adults in the general population. The most
highly exposed human population reported is Japanese adults with ingestion of total
genistein (free and complexed) of approximately 0.43 mg/kg body weight (bw)/day.
However, adverse effects in rodent studies were not observed at levels below 35–44
mg/kg bw/day. Therefore, the Expert Panel feels that under current exposure conditions,
adults would be unlikely to consume sufficient daily levels of genistein to cause adverse
reproductive and/or developmental effects.
The Expert Panel expresses negligible concern for adverse effects in neonates and
infants who may consume up to 0.01–0.08 mg/kg bw/day of genistein aglycone
contained in soy formula. . One member of the panel did not agree with this conclusion
and felt that a higher level of concern was warranted. It is noteworthy that about 1% of
total genistein in soy formula is present in its uncomplexed form, i.e., the aglycone

Soy Formula - Expert Panel Conclusion

There are insufficient human or experimental animal data available to permit a
determination of the developmental or reproductive toxicity of soy infant formula.
The conclusions noted above are those of the Genistein and Soy Formula Expert Panel
and should not be construed to represent the views of the NTP.
Next Steps

The final expert panel reports on genistein and soy formula will be posted on the CERHR

Then, I went hunting for the final recommendations Note; Negligible concern sure seemed to generate a long list critical date needs!

http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/chemicals/genis...patrick-soy.pdf

listed below are considered by the Expert Panel as critical data needs:

Data are needed to describe more carefully human infant exposure to isoflavones in soy infant
formula using biomarkers of exposure. These studies should consider use of formula type,
concomitant ingestion of other soy-containing compounds, and length of exposure.

Another case-control study to examine premature breast development in females and exposure to
soy infant formula is needed. This study should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical
power to detect meaningful differences.

A longitudinal cohort study to examine postnatal growth and neurobehavioral development of
healthy, full-term infants fed soy infant formula; these infants should be compared to breast-fed
or cow milk formula-fed infants, with particular attention paid to exposure conditions. This study
should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical power to detect meaningful differences.

Case-control studies are needed to examine reproductive endpoints, such as age at beginning of
puberty, early age at onset of menopause, endometriosis, uterine leiomyomata, and reproductive
organ carcinogenesis and neonatal exposure to soy infant formula and other soy products. These
studies should be large enough to ensure sufficient statistical power to detect meaningful
differences. Longitudinal cohort studies should be identified that have the potential to evaluate
exposure to soy infant formula in relation to these outcomes, including age at onset of
menopause.

5.0 Summaries, Conclusions, and Critical Data Needs
189
A carefully controlled animal study is needed in which multiple doses of soy infant formula
and/or other soy products are used so that dose-response relationships can be determined. Careful
consideration should be given to the choice of animal model, mindful of metabolic differences
between species particularly in the formation of equol. Consideration should also be given to the
appropriateness of this animal model to the human neonate. This study could be of two parts, with
one part consisting of prenatal exposure only and evaluation of developmental endpoints; the
second part could be a multigenerational study with exposure continuing into adulthood and
evaluation of both reproductive and postnatal developmental endpoints. Nutritional differences in
animal diets need to be considered in these experiments.

A carefully controlled animal study is needed in which the effects of soy infant formula and/or
other soy products on ovarian follicle counts and early ovarian failure are evaluated.
6.0

My impression is, when a neurotransmitter is low/blocked the body will compansate by producing MORE receptors. The sensitivity of existing ones can be affected to. Also, manganese and magnesium have similiar chemical structures. Is it possible that these babies bodies are predisposed to using manganese instead of magnesium. since the availability was greater in infancy?


http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:LAy9O...;cd=1&gl=us

Manganese is an essential trace mineral, but high levels are neurotoxic to newborns. Infants fed soy infant formula ingest as much as 80 times more manganese per day than those who are breast fed. Although healthy toddlers, children and adults exposed to excess manganese can usually eliminate most of it, infants cannot because their immature livers are not fully functional. At the same time, their growing brains and other organs are highly susceptible to damage from neurotoxins. This article reviews research showing that neonates exposed to the high levels of manganese present in soy formula are at [u]increased risk for neurodevelopmental abnormalities, including an impaired ability to make the neurotransmitter dopamine and damage to the substantia nigra, caudate, putamen and globus pallidus areas of the brain.[/u] These findings suggest that soy infant formula is a likely contributor to the epidemic of ADD/ADHD and other cognitive and behavioral disorders.


And

Triple threat man’ Manganese toxicity is a problem for people and animals of all ages, but represents a triple threat for infants. Newborns absorb more manganese because of their immature and permeable intestines, fail to eliminate excess manganese because of their immature livers, and are extremely vulnerable to manganese damage because their brains and other organs are still growing. By eight months of age, an infant on soy formula absorbs 1.1 mg of manganese per day above its metabolic need sand deposits about eight percent of that in the basal ganglia cells of the brain. Years later, this manganese may impair the brain’s ability to make the neurotransmitter dopamine and trigger behavioral problems ranging from Attention Deficit(ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders (ADHD) to violent and sociopathic behavior [8,17]. Bo Lonnerdal,Ph.D., of the University of California at Davis pulls no punches when he says, “Ingestion of soy-based formula in infancy could impair brain development [17].” [u]Animals fed even small excesses of manganese during the first weeks of life have shown biochemical abnormalities followed by lesions in the substantia nigra, caudate, putamen and globus pallidus areas of the brain. These areas all depend upon dopamine production for proper function and relate to our abilities to think clearly and flexibly, focus, complete tasks andperform well under stress [6,18].[/u] Trinh Tran, Ph.D., while working with Dr. Lonnerdal at UCDavis, found that baby rats given manganese chloride supplements at levels comparable to the manganese in soy-formula-fed infants showed no adverse effects until reaching adolescence.

These articles have some interesting info other than the reference to soy, but thought I would post it here anyway. I am interested in the emerging studies on bisphenol A also.

This article does not mention the down side to Genestein. I found the statement in the 2nd article important, especially for regards to infant formula (as opposed to occasional consumption by adults of unprocessed soy.

Folate Shields Fetus Against Chemical in Plastics

Tuesday, July 31, 2007; 12:00 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7073101030.html

TUESDAY, July 31 (HealthDay News) -- Fetal exposure to a chemical in
plastics can affect infant health, a new study shows, but folic acid, as
well as genistein, an active ingredient in soy, may both help protect
babies from those effects.


http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/new...olinoyetal.html

Dolinoy, DC, D Huang and RL Jirtle. 2007. Maternal nutrient supplementation counteracts bisphenol A-induced DNA hypomethylation in early development. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, in press.

Genistein may counter this effect of BPA, but genistein itself has been linked to adverse effects following developmental exposure. According to Dr. Frederick vom Saal, an expert on endocrine disruption, "Trying to balance the effect of BPA with genistein would be like recommending that barbituates are fine if you also take methamphetamine. I can't imagine any physician would support that prescription." Bisphenol A works through multiple genetic pathways. There is no evidence to suggest that genistein is effective at balancing effects of BPA that are mediated by other mechanisms


Links to adverse effects

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/arc...le9%3Bgenistein

I thought it might be worth bringing this thread up again, since it seems we have a lot of newer people here.

Ran across this new study, as I was serching Pub Med, for a study that showed an increase in tics with colds, for Faith,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?D...Pubmed_RVDocSum

Am J Ind Med. 2007 Oct 4; [Epub ahead of print]

Behavioral effects of subchronic inorganic manganese exposure in rats.

Manganese, an essential micronutrient, is a potential neurotoxicant in prolonged overexposure. Parkinson-like syndrome, motor deficit, disturbed psychomotor development are typical signs of neuropathological alterations due to Mn in humans.

and

Using complex methodology, new data were obtained regarding the relationship between the long-term effects of MnCl(2) at neuronal and behavioral level. Am. J. Ind. Med. © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Interesting that they mention parkinsons. My understanding.......Parkinson's is the result of the death of neurons involved in dopamine production. It occurs to me, in all of my "research" that the body is always compensating for things that go wrong. Say, an infant is exposed to high levels of manganese in soy, some neurons are destroyed. If it was a presynaptic neuron, the post synaptic neuron may form more receptors, to compensate for the lack of dopamine that is crossing the gap. Could you end up with super sensitive dopamine receptors?